This post’s for you “Truthers”

September 11th, 2012
submit to reddit Share

The attacks on 9/11/2001 against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were carried out by a band of Islamic extremists by hijacking airliners and using them as suicide weapons.  There was no involvement or knowledge by the US Government, nor was the failure of the buildings in any way caused by placement of internal explosives or any other kind of special weapon of conspiracy.   There was certainly no nuclear weapon, laser beam, emp or anything else exotic involved.

It was a simple case of an attack we were not expecting by relatively simple means that had not been secured and carried out in a manner that we were not well defended against.   The structural failures were a clear cut case of physical and thermal stresses that vastly exceeded the buildings design capacity.

I’m sure of this.   I know all the claims out there.  I’ve seen the evidence.   I had even been to the sight shortly after the attack.  I know people who helped in the cleanup.   I have talked to experts.   I’m well aware of the history of government conspiracies (both the kind that really did happen and the ones that are false.)

You think I’m oppressing you?   You think you know better?   So sure you can prove it was all a big plot and I’m an idiot?

Well, be my guest.   Do it right here.   Conspiracy theorists make such claims on this website all the time.  I won’t silence you.  I won’t edit your comment.

I will, however, debate, examine and criticize it.   Others who visit this website will too.   I’ll call you on what you say and I might even call you crazy or an idiot.   Feel free to call me names back.   So here ya go.

For the record, the editorial policy of this website for comments is as follows:

  1. It’s my website.  When it comes down to a judgement call, I’m the judge.
  2. Comments that are clear-cut spam, such as product advertisements may be removed.
  3. Comments that make it difficult to read the post or other comments (such as containing malicious code or very long or numerous identical comments etc) will be removed.
  4. Comments that are excessively vulgar to the point of being a risk of getting the site listed on web filters will be removed.
  5. Comments that are direct threats may be removed and reported.
  6. Direct personal accusations or references to private matters which may have implications related to personal safety or other valid concerns may be removed.
  7. Blatantly off-topic comments are regarded as spam.
  8. Posing as someone else is grounds for removal of the comment and blocking of future comments.
  9. Repeat offenders may have their host and IP range blocked.
  10. Under no circumstances will a comment be removed simply because I strongly disagree with it, because it attacks a contention, opinion or fact presented in the post or another comment, because it calls me on an error, because it is dissatisfied with a conclusion, or even because it undermines or effectively disputes something on this site.

I’m just so sick and tired of “truther” idiots out there making this horrible tragic attack their own personal game of lies.   So bring it on.


This entry was posted on Tuesday, September 11th, 2012 at 12:29 pm and is filed under Conspiracy Theories, Culture, History, personal, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
View blog reactions



113 Responses to “This post’s for you “Truthers””

Pages: « 1 2 [3] Show All

  1. 101
    Timothy Dunlap Says:

    BMS: By the way, is the drug trade not a conspiracy, too ? Why can’t the Department of Homeland Security intercept any of the opium/heroin from US-occupied Afghanistan? Who launders the money? How can thousands of people do this monstrous thing without getting caught? Why don’t any of them come forward to write books about it? I’ve tried getting more fresh air, but I just can’t figure it out.


    Quote Comment
  2. 102
    BMS Says:

            Timothy Dunlap said:

    BMS: It’s a 7 hour difference in the time zones. And Israel has daylight savings time, too, if that helps you find sunset.

    Timothy – Here’s a clue. The sun doesn’t care about daylight savings time. It’s position is best estimated by not using daylight savings time, since standard time is the system in which the sun will be at its highest point in the sky around noon.

    Sure, you can say that it was just before 4:00 pm EEST, but because you’re giving the time using daylight savings time, you need to remember that the sun is going to be an hour higher in the sky (closer to midday) because of that. That’s how daylight savings time works, and the result, in terms of the position of the sun, is the same.

    And what I said was, the video was made in the “midday” sun. The sun was directly overhead in the video.

    Oh really? And how do you know that? Was one of the cheering Palestinians carrying a sextant?

    Could your answer be more pathetic? And like all conspiracy theory loons, you just move on to more nonsense as your stupid theories are shot down one by one. But hey, when you’re willing to believe anything, you’ve got a lot of misinformation to go on, so don’t worry. I don’t think that you’ll run out of material anytime soon.

    Keep talking. It’s rather entertaining, but it won’t do you any good. You have no credibility left to salvage.


    Quote Comment
  3. 103
    Timothy Dunlap Says:

    BMS:

    You got caught fudging the facts, period. It’s a seven hour time difference. Not six. It’s nearly four o’clock. Not three.

    And your reference to daylight savings time didn’t change anything. In case you had confused yourself, I tried to explain to you, you need to look at the time of sunset, to see how low in the sky the sun would be just before 4 PM.

    But I see you were trying to confuse others, as you’re still doing it. You don’t get to move the sun by saying it was daylight savings time. It was still less than 3 hours to sunset.

    How do we know the sun is directly overhead? Well, by shadows. Welcome to
    planet Earth.

    For you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoaLbbAix0 << This is Patrick Clawson of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He's discussing how to get a war started with Iran.

    Clawson: “I frankly think that crisis initiation is really tough… and it’s very hard for me to see how the United States … uh … President can get us to war with Iran.” He mentioned events that past
    Presidents "had to wait for," the Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor. He said Lincoln had a better idea,
    "he ordered the commander at Fort Sumter to do exactly that thing which the South Carolinians had said would cause an attack.”

    And Clawson concluded: “So, if in fact the Iranians aren’t going to compromise,it would be best if somebody else started the war.”

    And this is for you, too, from 2009, http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2009/6/iran%20strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf << This is "Which Path To Persia," which is all about how
    to start a war with Iran.

    Which Path To Persia: "it is not impossible that Tehran might take some action that would justify an American invasion. And it is certainly the case that if Washington sought such a provocation, it
    could take actions that might make it more likely that Tehran would do so (although being too obvious
    about this could nullify the provocation)."

    It continues: "With provocation, the international diplomatic and domestic political requirements of an invasion would be mitigated, and the more outrageous the Iranian provocation
    (and the less that the United States is seen to be goading Iran), the more these challenges would
    be diminished. In the absence of a sufficiently horrific provocation, meeting these requirements would be daunting."

    Yes, there are large scale, long term, criminal conspiracies, like the heroin business or the cocaine business. And no, they can't exist without protection by government and money laundering by banks.

    And yes, the FBI concluded that Barbara Olson didn't call and tell Ted ANYTHING.

    And yes, the Israeli-sourced video from the evening of 9-11 was misrepresented by
    the networks.

    And yes, the TV news networks have a proven record of dishonesty and misrepresentation.
    I gave you three good examples.

    And yes, as we see with the Brookings Institute and the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (linked already) and the Project for a New American Century's "Rebuilding America's
    Defenses," (in 2000) http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    …AND the House International Relations Committee (in 1998) http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa48119.000/hfa48119_0.htm#17

    The wars we are fighting and the ones we now seek are planned in advance and we are
    the aggressors.

    And BMS I see you have difficulty telling the difference between a fact and an assertion.
    So, while you're ignoring the facts I just typed, consider this assertion: Israel wants us to destroy
    Iran for them and they want it very badly. And they don't care how many Americans they have to kill to get us to do this.


    Quote Comment
  4. 104
    BMS Says:

            Timothy Dunlap said:

    You got caught fudging the facts, period. It’s a seven hour time difference. Not six. It’s nearly four o’clock. Not three. … You don’t get to move the sun by saying it was daylight savings time.

    Tim – You’re an idiot. Sorry, but there is simply no other way to put it. And since you’re too stupid to understand how daylight savings time works, I’ll express everything from here on out in daylight savings time, since taxing your tiny brain yields nothing but more nonsense from you. The North Tower was struck at 3:46 in the afternoon Palestinian time.

    And your reference to daylight savings time didn’t change anything. In case you had confused yourself, I tried to explain to you, you need to look at the time of sunset, to see how low in the sky the sun would be just before 4 PM. … It was still less than 3 hours to sunset.

    I need to look? Why don’t you just tell me what the time of sunset was and how low in the sky the sun was at that time. Don’t you know?

    Since you’re obviously too incompetent of a conspiracy theorist to have that information handy, I’ll tell you. This information is almost trivial to find out.

    On September 11, 2001, the sun set at 6:50 pm. The sun was at its highest at 12:36 pm. Thus, when the first tower was struck, at 3:46 pm local time, 3 hours and 10 minutes had elapsed since the sun was at its highest and 3 hours and 4 minutes remained until sunset. In terms of time, the sun was roughly half the way to going down.

    In terms of elevation, however, the sun was still at 38 degrees above the horizon. The highest it ever got that day was 63 degrees. The sun was not “low in the west,” as you have claimed; in fact, it was still pretty darn high, at about 60% of its highest elevation that day.

    How do we know the sun is directly overhead? Well, by shadows.

    Geez, have you ever looked at the videos?!! I can only assume that you have not. In one shot, you can clearly see the shadow of the cameraman, which was cast on the vehicle he was filming, because the sun was at his back. Other shots show people in the shadows of the buildings that they are standing next to. These videos were clearly shot sometime in the mid-afternoon, which is entirely consistent with what actually happened.


    Quote Comment
  5. 105
    Timothy Dunlap Says:

    BMS:

    You want to quibble about what “low” means, as if the sun wasn’t low, and at the same time you want to claim shadows as if it was low.

    The sun was less than 3 hours away from sunset, low in the west (southwest but that’s not important) WHEN THE FIRST PLANE STRUCK THE FIRST TOWER. (Never mind giving the news media time to figure out it wasn’t an accident, and giving the Israeli news crew time to find some Palestinians.)

    (As for why they would do that, you won’t answer.)

    Yes, I saw the video that was shown on the evening of 9-11. I don’t know what video
    you’re seeing now. Or what direction the shadows you’re seeing are in. Yes, I keep up with the time of sunset. I simply told you that your “daylight savings time” references are not important, unless they confuse you about the time of sunset.

    After Yitzhak Shamir’s Stern Gang’s attempted murder of President Truman, after Operation Susannah (Lavon Affair 1954,) and the attacks on the U.S.S. Liberty (1967,) and the C-4 bombing of the Cole in Yemen (in 2000,) and since Bibi Netanyahu predicted the destruction of the WTC twin towers in 1995, I’d expect you to be a little skeptical of propaganda videos from Israel.


    Quote Comment
  6. 106
    Chris Says:

            Timothy Dunlap said:

    BMS:

    You want to quibble about what “low” means, as if the sun wasn’t low,

    and at the same time you want to claim shadows as if it was low.

    The sun was less than 3 hours away from sunset, low in the west (southwest but that’s not important) WHEN THE FIRST PLANE STRUCK THE FIRST TOWER. (Never mind giving the news media time to figure out it wasn’t an accident,

    and giving the Israeli news crew time to find some Palestinians.)

    (As for why they would do that, you won’t answer.)

    Yes, I saw the video that was shown on the evening of 9-11.

    I don’t know what video
    you’re seeing now.

    Or what direction the shadows you’re seeing are in.

    Yes, I keep up with the time of sunset.

    I simply told you that your “daylight savings time” references are not important, unless they confuse you about the time of sunset.

    After Yitzhak Shamir’s Stern Gang’s attempted murder of President Truman, after Operation Susannah (Lavon Affair 1954,) and the attacks on the U.S.S. Liberty (1967,) and the C-4 bombing of the Cole in Yemen (in 2000,)

    and since Bibi Netanyahu predicted the destruction of the WTC twin towers in 1995, I’d expect you to be a little skeptical of propaganda videos from Israel.

    Tim,

    What you seem incapable of understanding is that the burden of proof is on those who MAKE extraordinary claims. You want all of us to believe that Israel and the Neo Cons cooked up 9-11 to fight a war. So far all you have is a bunch of unrelated claims – many of which have been discredited quite easily by folks online here.

    Frankly all your “evidence” makes me think of is a rather effective post 9-11 disinformation campaign by folks hostile to Israel. You need an actual document with good providence which shows the president worked with Israel to plan the attacks. You need a person who worked in the white house at the time and has no agenda to come forward and say – I heard the President planning the attacks. You have nothing but completely unrelated claims about CNN making up news stories (not shocking in the least) and videos which a bunch of non-experts don’t agree about. The supposed “movers” are nothing but a myth – show me the report filed by the FBI agents involved (use FOIA to get it).

    In short you have nothing but a bunch of hot air and passion. That won’t get you anywhere.


    Quote Comment
  7. 107
    Jason C Says:

            Timothy Dunlap said:

    BMS:

    Oh, but I did do the math.

    It’s a 7 hour difference in the time zones.

    And Israel has daylight savings time, too, if that helps you find sunset.

    And what I said was, the video was made in the “midday” sun.

    The sun was directly overhead in the video.

    Tim, just out of curiosity I did a quick video search to see if there was any shred of truth about a sun being directly overhead as the Palestinians celebrated in the streets.

    Here’s a clip from MSNBC with Katie Couric reporting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU

    Clearly, that clip shows long shadows and a yellowish tone to the sunlight consistent with a late afternoon sun a few hours or less before sunset. In one pan of the camera you can even see the sun quite low near the horizon.


    Quote Comment
  8. 108
    BMS Says:

            Timothy Dunlap said:

    Yes, I saw the video that was shown on the evening of 9-11.

    Ah … now it’s clear to me. You watched a news clip 11 years ago, then later, read a crazy rumor on the Internet and never bothered in all the years since to check whether it was true, even refusing to do something as simple as watch the video clip again.

    That’s some crack research you’ve done there. You must be proud. Somehow I suspect that all of your other claims are equally as thoroughly researched.

    Now, go watch the video. The link to one copy on YouTube has been posted above.


    Quote Comment
  9. 109
    Chris Says:

            BMS said:

    Now, go watch the video. The link to one copy on YouTube has been posted above.

    But seriously folks even if there is something hinky with the video (a point that has not been established) what does that prove? If the entire video was film on a hollywood set by Steve Jobs and one of Hitler’s clones it only means somebody faked a video. You don’t have motive for the fake video and you clear don’t have anything related to WTC.

    In Tim’s world if he can ‘prove’ the video issue all the pieces than fall into place – that is not how it works. You need to prove all elements of the crime – not just some crazy motive.


    Quote Comment
  10. 110
    Jason Kobos Says:

    I was hoping to see someone make the connection between high ranking official getting documents about information and not acting on it. Thus get some closure on who dropped the ball and why. But, my hopes were too high. Of course if the government did discover why the system they had failed to catch these guys I doubt they would broadcast it to everyone. Don’t think I want them to either.

    If the government has the ability to invade Iraq under the false statement of there being chemical weapons why can’t they just make a false statement about there being chemical weapons and invade them? Why do they need to be blowing up buildings on our soil. Why will they murder 3,000 some people in these buildings, but decided that the couple hundred on the planes must be saved and robotic planes used instead? Why wasn’t the 4th plane that crashed eliminated of passengers? After all if it were then they couldn’t have foiled the non-existent hijackers plot and force the plane to crash into the ground instead of another building?

    I’m sure you’ll just say that only the towers required the extra explosives carried by the drone planes. But, I though the buildings were already rigged to blow and the planes were just a cover?

    Wouldn’t it be even more scary if the buildings just blew up with the rigged explosives and no planes involved at all? That would scare the s*** out of me for sure. Then we get some video of a Mid eastern look guy who say he did it all and there was nothing we could do to stop him from doing it again while he laughs hysterically.

    The missing gold had to be taken out of WTC 7 before the crashes. So, if the gold has already been stolen then… Gold doesn’t just disappear when you drop a bunch of concrete and steel on it, and it doesn’t evaporate into thin air during a fire. Destroying the building doesn’t actually cover up the missing gold. Neither does knocking down a building guarantee that documents get destroyed with it. Meaning to be 100% that all those critical SEC documents were destroyed you would have to destroy them first. Obviously the only logical way to cover up some shredded documents is to fly a planed into the building after first flying 2 planes into the 2 nearby building to cover up your coverup plane crash.

    If someone is going to care enough about 800m to blow up 2 skyscrapers and murder 3,000 people then somebody else is going to raise hell when 400m in gold just disappears out of another building.

    If heroin is such a lucrative business then why is Afghanistan still a s*** hole of a place to live. They should be living like the Saudi’s. Oh, right. the money is in the selling on the streets not the farming. So, there is no money in the farming, which is why we invade the farm land, to get the money that farming doesn’t have…

    Supposedly the entire Polish government was assassinated when they wanted to stop Russia from building a pipeline to Germany. What exactly does the U.S. have to gain by getting in the way of Russia building a pipeline to India?

    Sorry, I got a little carried away. I was having so much fun coming up with made up scenarios to fill in the gaps my made up scenarios left open. I hope that I have proven something because I wrote some sentences on the internet.


    Quote Comment
  11. 111
    Twominds Says:

    I came here and read all of the comments in the hope that someone would tell me the truth about nuclear bombs being used to bring down the Towers. I’m not fanatic enough to look for it myself, so would any truther that support that theory please enlighten me?


    Quote Comment
  12. 112
    drbuzz0 Says:

            Twominds said:

    I came here and read all of the comments in the hope that someone would tell me the truth about nuclear bombs being used to bring down the Towers. I’m not fanatic enough to look for it myself, so would any truther that support that theory please enlighten me?

    There were no nuclear bombs. It’s a ridiculous claim. If there had been they would have had to be tiny or they would have blown the hell out of lower Manhattan. Even if they were tiny, there would be fallout detectable well above background levels. There wasn’t.


    Quote Comment
  13. 113
    Twominds Says:

            drbuzz0 said:

    There were no nuclear bombs. It’s a ridiculous claim.

    If there had been they would have had to be tiny or they would have blown the hell out of lower Manhattan. Even if they were tiny, there would be fallout detectable well above background levels. There wasn’t.

    SNORT!! Of course there weren’t! I had to pick up my jaw from the floor the first time I saw it mentioned, I didn’t think it could get that idiotic. I just hoped to get a truther out of the woodwork to tell me about this most ridiculous idea of all. I wanted to hear how they came by it. And I left the apostrofs around ‘truth’ away so I wouldn’t shy them away. Oh well, I’ll have to find them where they are then. Off into crazy-crazy land.


    Quote Comment

Pages: « 1 2 [3] Show All

Leave a Reply

Current month ye@r day *

Please copy the string tL11bm to the field below:

Protected by WP Anti Spam