But, there are better solutions… Just ban the new coal plants anyways… and focus on noth’n but clean (and very cheap) energy and its storage. We have had the tech since the 60’s! The little extra costs of the electric bill is way worth not having to conform to silly laws (that still allow for limited energy resources). Eventually, there will be unlimited clean energy (if everyone demands it). There will be no need to “ban” the lightbulb as it won’t matter in the least! The other way, with laws and silly enviro limitations like “plastic is bad”, there will be NO energy except for remaining FF and (resource wars). What, shall we conserve till the last drop?

We need to make laws against cheap insulation in modular homes. We need to make laws that require the cheapest “bestest” sources of clean energy, for example. Not against issues that make people think “hittler”…

The ad was funny and good, I’m just taking the root of all this a bit extreeme because energy is “all that” and then some.

        drbuzz0 said:

Yes, I do think that the “Green Police” although somewhat satirical is pretty much what these groups would like to eventually see.

They do have a political side and lobby the governments of the world very strongly, generally seeing themselves as the ones who should be making and enforcing policy. The Green Party especially.

Yes, they are sometimes willing to die or go to jail, just as those involved in the Munich Beer Haul Putch were.

Well they didn’t putch. They came to power legally in Germany, just like Hitler did a few years after his failed coup. But comparing anyone to Hitler has rarely made for a good argument, now has it? It’s just so easy and compelling…though it kinda reeks of the the kind of intellectual lazyness that one usually expects from the other side.

Laws need to be enforced, or else the concept of laws becomes meaningless. Enforcing environmental laws is no less serious or important business than enforcing laws on traffic. It cuts into your personal freedom for the safety and benefit of society. What keeps people from dumping waste in the river (or in your driveway)? That’s right, environmental laws. Green laws. Not all of them are bad. Some of them are even essential to our health. In effect, the police is already a ‘green police’, the green party just made them a tiny bit greener. (And, ironically, blue to conform to international standard)

When fighting a strongly ideological enemy, one has to be careful, lest one become like him. Please stick to reason, it suits you so much better than ideology.

        Satan_Klaus said:

Let’s take a step back and look at the presented material again because I think two things are getting mixed up here. One is the ‘green police’ add which brings across a very broken message of eco-totalitarism (from which you, but only you, can be saved by driving an Audi). The other is Greenpeace, an activist group that occassionally performs what amounts to industrial sabotage.

well, when using Greenpeace as an example, I’m doing so because they’re just the most well known for their aggressive tactics.

However, what I really mean by “Greenpeace” is “Greenpeace and groups of a similar mentality”

These groups being:

Greenpeace
Sea Shepherd
Friends of the Earth
Earth First
The Earth Liberation Front
The Green Party of the US
The Green Parties of Europe
The Green Party of Canada
The Sierra club (unfortunately has joined in recent years)
The Natural Resources Defense Fund

Yes, I do think that the “Green Police” although somewhat satirical is pretty much what these groups would like to eventually see. They do have a political side and lobby the governments of the world very strongly, generally seeing themselves as the ones who should be making and enforcing policy. The Green Party especially.

Yes, they are sometimes willing to die or go to jail, just as those involved in the Munich Beer Haul Putch were.

My point is that Greenpeace’s methods are outside the law, but their goal is probably not to become the ‘green police’, it is awareness. While you will basically never share the conviction of radicals or aprove of their methods, they serve a purpose in the discurse: they raise awareness. They show that he issue they are protesting is important enough that someone is willing to go to jail (or even die) for it, so it needs to be discussed in the general public.

Satan_Klaus

        Ted said:

I hate the ad too, but I am amazed by your inability to recognize its deeper implications.

The Green Police concept is a parody of environmental conscious regulations. By carrying this concept to a ridiculous comic book caricature, they are creating a straw man for their real argument, that such regulations can and should be ignored by the happy-go-lucky people that their product appeals to.

In other words, you are a “better” person according to the advertisers if you find the Green Police silly, ridiculous or even scary, as most viewers would. Therefore you can go right along doing what you’re doing and feel better about yourself by being contemptuous of environmentalists.

But environmental awareness and laws encouraging energy conservation exist on a spectrum from purely voluntary to mandatory and not solely in the extreme Gestapo form shown in the advertisement.

So the idea is that by driving an Audi A3 you can avoid having the Green Police bother you and keep doing what you’re doing? I find this disturbing, given what the Audi driver does. The “Green Police” wave him through and so he drives through. Does he stop to protest his fellow citizens being stopped? Does he try to mow down the green police and save his fellow man from the inhumanity of the authorities? Does he protest at all? Give aid to those who the Green Police have stopped?

No, he keeps on going. He does nothing. He acts like it’s okay because he is not being stopped.

First they came for the SUV drivers, but I don’t drive an SUV, so I did not stop them.

Then they came for the sports car drivers, but I don’t drive a sports car, so I did not stop them.

Then they came for the gasoline car drivers, but I drive a deisel and so I did nothing.

Then they came for me, and there was nobody left to do anything about it.

I find the whole thing chilling. When and if the Green Police come, they won’t take everyone at once. They’ll chip away at our liberties and take our neighbors one by one, hoping we don’t notice until it’s too late.

Basically they’re trying to make a joke out of an enviornmental Kristallnacht.

        Brian-M said:

Wow, ten bucks? Are you kidding?

Over here (Australia) the re-usable bags sold in stores are only $1 each. And more importantly, they’re nothing like plastic bags, they’re real bags. (more info) But a most people still use plastic.

Ten bucks might be a little much – I may have overestimated. It’s something like five bucks. Yeah, they’re real bags that are reusable and reasonably durable. However they are more expensive than they should be. Actually they look almost identical to the “green bag”

They’re at lest a few bucks. Probably $4.50 in profit at least.

        drbuzz0 said:

There are stores near me that don’t offer you a bag unless you ask and instead try to sell you reusable bags at ten bucks each.

Wow, ten bucks? Are you kidding?

Over here (Australia) the re-usable bags sold in stores are only $1 each. And more importantly, they’re nothing like plastic bags, they’re real bags. (more info) But a most people still use plastic.

The whole paper/plastic question seems a little strange to me, because over here the only store that offers paper bags is the liquor store. Food stores over here don’t stock paper bags at all.

I’ve noticed that some department stores have started to stock biodegradable plastic bags, the kind that look, feel (and taste) a little like that white membrane you get on the inside of eggshells (only thicker and stronger).

        Luke said:

Lighten up guys, it’s a car ad. The message Audi want you to take away is that if you don’t like excessive green regulations interfering with your life, and want to be environmentally responsible without giving up modern luxuries, buy an A3. I would have thought that this kind of argument would be supported here – and you could use essentially the same line to make a pro-nuke case. Fed up with people trying to make you feel guilty about turning up the air con? Build nukes.

Eh, maybe, but that’s not the message I got. I found the whole thing offensive.

A token step. Thought there are three billion plastic bags used daily, it’s really only a tiny percentage of waste. Paper bags are also considerably more expensive per unit and plastic bags can be recycled – in addition to the fact that they are useful for things after youbuy stuff in them.

China hasn’t really banned plastic bags anyway. They just restricted stores offering them for free with most purchases.

In early high school I used to work in a supermarket. (yeah I know.) Anyway, plastic bags are superior to paper in many ways in addition to being cheaper and thus improving overall economy. If you put something heavy and cold in a paper bag on a humid day, you’re asking for trouble. Put a container of ice cream in, for example – by the time it has been in the cart for a while, it’s soaking wet with condensation and melted frost and I saw many messes where wet juice bottles or ice cream fell through the bottom of a wet paper bag.

Then there’s the sanitary issue. A lot of people put all their stuff in one bag when they buy a bunch of small things. We were told to use plastic bags to seperate potentially hazardous food combination – for example, if a person bought a pound of hamburger meat or a steak and some fresh produce at the same time, put the meat in a plastic bag and tie it closed to stop it from leaking on the produce.

There are stores near me that don’t offer you a bag unless you ask and instead try to sell you reusable bags at ten bucks each. Such a ridiculous ploy