drbuzz0 said:

The whole concept is the kind of thing that you don’t find from the televangelists who buy television time at four o’clock in the morning and who generally have a congregation that lives primarily in trailers. It’s also the kind of thing that you see from the kind of churches were people handle rattlesnakes and are missing most of their teeth.

Not that I really am big on Christianity to begin with, but it’s really the ghetto kind of Christianity that is into that rapture crap.

At least if it is just a feature of ignorant people, this mutation of Christianity shouldn’t be too difficult to eradicate by education.

(As opposed to Islam, which could only be eradicated by extermination – the history of the Spanish Inquisition proved that forced conversion of Muslims is impossible. That’s probably the main reason why the anti-Islam sentiments you’ve expressed in the past made my blood run cold.)

        George Carty said:

Well, the Catholics never believed any of that Rapture-Ready crap anyway…

All that bull about the rapture was invented in the 1800’s and then adopted by some of the traveling holy rollers in the US and a few in Britain in the early 20th century, taking root in the intellectual badlands of the American South.

It has NEVER been a central tenate of any major christian faith. No, the Catholics don’t believe it and the Episcopal and Lutheran and other traditional denominations don’t go for that either and the Eastern Orthodox churches never were into that.

The whole concept is the kind of thing that you don’t find from the televangelists who buy television time at four o’clock in the morning and who generally have a congregation that lives primarily in trailers. It’s also the kind of thing that you see from the kind of churches were people handle rattlesnakes and are missing most of their teeth.

Not that I really am big on Christianity to begin with, but it’s really the ghetto kind of Christianity that is into that rapture crap.

        George Carty said:

Well, the Catholics never believed any of that Rapture-Ready crap anyway…

I’m amazed at the American fundamentalists who view the King James Bible as inerrant (as it is written in a language which didn’t even exist in Jesus’ time)!

All of this rubbish is seen by the Holy Mother Church as a 19th century American heresy. I agree, and include all of their dogma as well as nonsense.

Logically that is an irrelevancy. One cannot prove the non-existence of the Hindu pantheon ether, or the Roman, or the Greek, or for that mater, the Great Spaghetti Monster. That doesn’t provide a reason to believe in them ether.

        DV82XL said:

I spent years in formal Bible study as a student under French Jesuits, and I have been through the Bible verse-by-verse under their tutelage and it has been my experience that massive majorities of Christian fundamentalists can’t articulate the Gospel with any coherence, because they do not know it as well as they should. Ultimately I see people claiming to be Christians that like you believe more in a cause than a faith.

Well, the Catholics never believed any of that Rapture-Ready crap anyway…

You can’t prove the non-existence of God either – I’d argue though that fundamentalist Christianity is especially vulnerable though because of its insistence on (demonstrably false) young-earth creationism.

I’m amazed at the American fundamentalists who view the King James Bible as inerrant (as it is written in a language which didn’t even exist in Jesus’s time)!

        Pronatalist said:

You sure are one to talk. How do you dare judge Christians, when you apparently know nothing of the way? Had you read much of anything from the Bible, would you scoff at the Endtimes of which the Bible speaks of so much?

I spent years in formal Bible study as a student under French Jesuits, and I have been through the Bible verse-by-verse under their tutelage and it has been my experience that massive majorities of Christian fundamentalists can’t articulate the Gospel with any coherence, because they do not know it as well as they should. Ultimately I see people claiming to be Christians that like you believe more in a cause than a faith.

I rejected religion because it was obviously built on feet of clay, and nothing of it could be subjected to any proof, but I am astonished at the depth of ignorance of scripture that exists among people claiming to believe in an inerrant Bible. You are one of them.

        Gordon said:

How the hell did abortion and families and the end of days get into this?

Uh, maybe because the problems of our times, looming economic collapse, is yet ANOTHER reason not to be much worrying about fighting largely irrelevant coal fires.

Some months ago, somebody at work wrote me a note on a piece of paper, “The End is Near.” As a joke. Not that they were disagreeing, probably joking that I sound a bit like one of those street preachers. I motioned, go ahead, tape it on my back. I’ll play along for a little while. Why? Because I do sort of want to promote that idea anyway. What do I care what morons think?

Somewhere, I heard the story, that somebody asked one of those street preachers, You’ve been saying the end is near now for years? We’re still here. So he changed his message. “The end is NEARER.”

I disagree. I’ve read of too many gloriously futile efforts, that failed to stop the coal fires. Apparently some have been successful, so some smaller fires perhaps can be stopped. But I’m very concerned of the massive deficits the government keeps running up, people are already afraid to spend money in a down economy, and for cash-strapped governments to raise taxes upon already tax-burdened taxpayers, is likely to incite REVOLUTION. I do hope that there’s still time for the peaceful sort, of a huge slaughter of incumbents in the next election, but I fear we are fast running of time for a peaceful resolution to the country’s mounting financial crisis that this cult-of-Obama IS CAUSING.

But putting out coal fires isn’t glamorous, and where’s the relevance to the U.S., when most of the major out-of-control coal fires are raging in China and India? The U.S. has plenty of problems of its own, without trying to be the phony Savior to the world. I think much of the rest of the world is getting tired of us, and Obama’s incessant pathetic speechs. He has all the markings of a narcissist. You look up narcissism in the dictionary, and it shows a photo of Obama, I heard somebody just say. Did you know the Chinese and the Japanese are DONE lending us money, or so I heard? Foreigners are losing confidence in our ability to repay, hastening the weakening of the U.S. dollar. This is a very real CRISIS, very unlike the natural phenonomen of coal fires which even nature appears rather unconcerned about.

At least the “green energy” promises to delivers some productive electricity, which I think is an exxageration, while fighting coal fires delivers nothing but somewhat lower CO2 emissions, which are mostly neglible, as far as most common people can tell. And rarely are the coal fires, anywhere near to where the people are, WHO NEED JOBS.

Are you asking me for specific statistics? I am no expert in this subject, but a commentator upon something curious I read on the internet. Of course this isn’t the first website on the matter I have seen, as I have been following the topic of underground coal fires for some time. But I see them in a different light, and not all the gloom-and-doom “The sky is falling” hype of our age. It’s just nature burning off some excess hydrocarbons, which is nothing new really. I would rather see humans get the productive work benefit, but there’s plenty of coal, and we really can’t “control” all of nature anyway.

Often it cost far less to “do nothing,” than to “do something,” thus, I agree with the past trend of mostly just letting the huge and smaller underground coal fires spread and grow naturally unchecked. They are minor in the grand scheme of things, and not anything like “the end of the world as we know it.”

One of the most notable U.S. coal fires, is the one that’s been burning for decades in Centralia. I read somewhere that it’s about to, or spreading under an old cemetary, and some old vent pipes quit smoking, because the fire had moved on away from them. They made many costly attempts to stop the fire, and on it burns. However, the fire isn’t all that big, and it doesn’t grow all that fast at all. I hardly think a few old dusty corpses, are even going to notice. Considering the huge costs, it seems they have been right, to just let the fire do its thing, and let the place become a curious tourist attraction. I see on YouTube, all sorts of viewer videos of people exploring the curious smoking vents, and subsidence of the old stretch of highway.

A little money here, a little money there, and next thing you know, we have national bankruptcy, collapsed currencies, social turmoil, and an advancement against liberty by the NWO cabal.

Most of the major coal fires are in China and India, and we are already mostly bankrupt. The Chinese and Japanese are loathe to lend us any more money. So how do we think we can afford to solve all of China’s and India’s minor problems? Maybe if Big Brother U.S. government would stop minding everybody’s business, and get its nose out of everybody’s lives, it might be able to mind its own business a little better?

        DV82XL said:

Your type = see above

STEREOTYPE ALERT

So you are saying that I am just like, whatever people are like, of “my kind.” Know what that says to me? Tells me you have a very small mind, and don’t want to take the trouble to understand the many differences among people, and see things in terms of not much more than just 2 groups – us and them. You don’t have a clue as to what reality is.

What’s this guy’s name? Scott Rotor? Think I’m on his newsletter list? I heard about it, just like you, on the mainstream misleadia. Only I had discernment to label George Tiller’s Church as APOSTATE, because they are not following in the ways of Jesus at all. I clearly remember reading in the New Testament, that somebody was to be put out of the Church, for a much lesser unrepentant sin than abortion. I think the person was fornicating, and their Church didn’t even seem to care, for which they were rebuked, by Paul, I think it was. Paul said to put them out, lest the person corrupt the entire Church. (1 Cor 5:1-8 incest in the Church) But since you have a very small mind, you think we of “my kind” are reading off the same cue cards, and I have some inside track to the likes of Scott Rotor. Either you are a fool, or you think you are being funny, or you are trying to make me angry with your reckless accusations. Which is it? I think the former. In this perilous time for our country, under the cult-of-Obama, it’s very FOOLISH to be so poorly informed as you are. Do you have any clue how to find the contrarian and truer news sources? But then, why should I bother to tell you? You wouldn’t know a conspiracy theory, if it was a snake about to bite you?

You sure are one to talk. How do you dare judge Christians, when you apparently know nothing of the way? Had you read much of anything from the Bible, would you scoff at the Endtimes of which the Bible speaks of so much?

Don’t you even hear sayings and quotations? “If you aren’t outraged, you aren’t paying attention.”

Oh here we go again with the reckless accusations. Does it get you off, making ridiculous accusations against ordinary people, of which you know practically nothing? Are you just another Obama-aton, really to fall down and worship at tyrant Obama’s feet?

All the far more legitimate conspiracy theories out there, NWO, UN agenda, “the government did it,” Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc., and you just want to make up a new one, against somebody who actually takes the time to talk (type) to you personally, with no evidence at all? Just because your small little mind is about to explode at the first suggestion that there could be a CONSPIRACY out there somewhere? Sorry to have disturbed your fragile little delusional bubble (not really). Sorry to have disturbed your slumber (not really). But better I do it, than you get caught blindsided, by some bombshell in the news, say like government declaring marshall law and tyrant Obama appointing himself President For Life (dictator). Those who know their history, know that evil men who become so popular as Obama has become, are very much like other past very destructive dictators. But then those who don’t know history are condemned to repeat it. What we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.

Every hear the saying, where there’s smoke, there’s fire? You must be blind if you see no smoke. What? No sense of smell either? Did you know there’s a ammo shortage? It’s not because of crazies out there. People say, “something isn’t right,” and they are buying all they can. Not because they are plotting anything. Only a small stupid mind like that of a liberal, or of yours, would jump to conclusions without considering many alternatives or evidence. But there’s also the matter that if endless government bailouts and printing record amounts of funny money “monetization” of debt triggers hyperinflation, of the sort of Zimbabwee, or the collapse of the dollar, how do we protect ourselves from the gangs running wild in the streets? How are these people going to eat, when the economy collapses? Well many people think they are going to come to yours and my homes, and take whatever we have. And the government track record for managing crises is abysmal. Just look at hurricane Katrina. Of course, you don’t know about such things, because you trust the news from the mainstream misleadia? You don’t know what I am talking about, because you are clueless.

I told people at work, that there was something wrong with Obama. I don’t get to tell them so much now. Oh, yeah, I have their phone numbers, but why bother? They had their chance. Unless they have a job to offer me, why should I waste any more time with them? Time to make new friends. Why? Some of that “change you can believe in.” My employer liquidated, and left us with no jobs. Not when the economy started tanking when investors figured out who would win the election. Not when Obama was elected. But within a few months afterwards, as government monkeywrenching with the economy accelerated the U.S. hemorhaging jobs. But then I’m a Christian, so I shouldn’t be angry that Obama has over and over violated his oath of office to uphold the Constitution, and is trying to destroy the economy. I should be happy and glad, because he is the false messiah, and has “great intentions,” right? And I should believe this from some critic who knows nothing of the way? I suppose you didn’t know that Obama is a Muslim, and has failed his citizen test that the Constitution says he must meet, to be President. Because you are clueless like the rest of the sheeple. About ready to be sheered, and I mean more than just shaving off some excess wool.

It’s not just Christians who have seething rage just under the surface, ready to explode somewhere. People are hopping mad about taxes, scared to spend money, have less and less confidence in this government. Corporate bond holders of Obama Motors are being ripped off having stolen from them their secured loans in exchange for far less value, by Obama paying off the unions that helped him get elected, in blatant violation of the law. A few people are wise enough to be drawing down their money from the banks, and stashing it somewhere, fearing that the banking system is far more fragile and has way too little reserves, than we have been led to believe. And unless you have been living in a cave somewhere with no electricity, surely you have noticed the commercials for getting out of worthless paper currency and into gold? But then, that’s right, you have no discernment, so you couldn’t spot a strange trend if it was a snake about to bite you?

Your wishful thinking will do you no good when you are LEFT BEHIND. Of course, you probably don’t even know what I am talking about, do you?

You sound like the sort that would believe some crazy mainstream misleadia excuse that UFOs took us pesky Christians away from the earth, right before the world goes to somewhere in a handbasket. Of course, if you aren’t quite of “that type,” lay it on me. My mind is big enough to imagine that there might be more than just 2 or 3 “types” of people in the world, unlike your small little mind.

a tip for you: You might be a bit more persuasive, next time you criticize somebody’s religion, if you actually tried to make a little effort to understand that religion. They do have books on such subjects you know? But then you probably don’t read much do you, as you seem very poorly informed.

        DV82XL said:

Well there we have it in a nutshell why nothing you say needs be taken seriously. The Endtimes? This is possibly the most conceited reason to date why we shouldn’t be looking at longterm solution to environmental problems. Because the World is coming to an end to fulfill the drug-induced ranting of some Hellenized Jewish malcontent from two thousand years ago in a book whose place in the canon was still being debated at the time of Bede six hundred years later.

Never mind the fact that there have been those arrogant enough to think that history ends with them since the idea was put forward. Never mind the fact that there is no more evidence that the world will end as described in Revelations than it began as described in Genesis. No you’re so important that the whole damned word is going end on your watch. Frankly you are welcome to stew in your own delusions, up to the point where it begins to impact the rest of us. Indifference to environmental issues has been a hallmark of Fundamentalist Christianity, because to support it would mean you didn’t think Armageddon was coming. So stupid and narrow-minded are you that you can even see that you are being played politically to keep the worst polluters from changing the way they do business.

Why are there so many hardcore anti-theists in the pro-nuclear blogosphere? IIRC the Armageddonist tendencies in American Christianity don’t even have any basis in the Bible, but are as recent as the 19th century (starting with J.N. Darby).

Anyway, if I’d been American I would have without a doubt voted for Obama, partly because of the kinds of sentiments expressed here by Pronatalist. Not only had McCain shown himself to be a highly dangerous warmonger, but he was 70 years old and rumored to have cancer. Sarah Palin is one of the Armageddonists…

As Charlie Stross said, “the world dodged a bullet” last November – no matter how incompetent Obama turns out to be, at least he isn’t aiming to end the world.

A few years ago this kind was usually on a street corner with a cardboard sign. I guess that’s antiquated with the internet and all.

Look, as far as coal fires go, I’m generally one who thinks the government spends too much money on too many things, but this is a rare example of a place where government money could do a lot of good. In my opinion the government should stop spending money on things like wind turbines and subsidies for god-knows-what pet industry and instead try to spend money on projects that have a high return and benefit the public or society in general and are something that the private sector alone won’t do.

I think this is an example of where government money could be spent more effectively than on things like “green energy” Have you any idea what money is spent in that area? 10% of the money spent on that (which is billions and billions) could put out a lot of burning coal fires.

Maybe they can’t be all put out, but many of them can and that alone would help a great deal.