Solving The Nuclear Waste “Problem” – With Magic
February 18th, 2008
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Nuclear waste has been a huge problem for the nuclear energy industry. Al thought it’s not an actual engineering or science problem (reprocessing, separation and transmutation can just about eliminate the “waste” and make more fuel in the process). However, nuclear “waste” is certainly a political and PR problem. So wouldn’t it be nice if there was a way to simply treat anything radioactive and render it totally inert and harmless?
Well, according to this video there is. How, you ask? Well, not with anything big and cumbersome like a high flux reactor or a particle accelerator but with some stuff called “Brown’s Gas.” Brown’s gas, for those who do not know, is simply a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen which results from electrolyzing water without separating the gases that result. Obviously this poses a danger as the mix is quite flammable, but the process has been used by jewelers for soldering. It’s more correctly known as Oxyhydrogen.
However “Brown’s gas” is claimed to be far more than just the mundane hydrogen and oxygen mixture which is so well known. It’s been claimed to have numerous unsubstantiated properties. A common theme is that it yields more energy than is used to make it (obviously false). It is also said to be suppressed by big oil companies, capable of curing diseases, able to react to different materials in nearly miraculous ways and numerous other things. For those who need a magic substance, “Browns Gas” can be empowered with any fictitious and magical property you might care to concoct.
There are lots of videos on Youtube about it, many are another take on the recurring “water powered car” claim which seems to draw in more suckers with each rehashing.
Here’s a video I found where it is claimed that this relatively mundane mix of oxygen and hydrogen is able to somehow magically eliminate radioactivity from a substance.
How? Well, they don’t really say. Presumably it is somehow either inducing a low-energy transmutation reaction (as yet unknown to science) or perhaps it is changing the mechanism by which the strong force works within the nucleus…. or maybe they’re just making this stuff up. The later seems the most likely explanation to me.
And here’s another video in which it is “demonstrated” that Brown’s gas can eliminate radioactivity. Here a gentleman in a lab coat (Hey I own a lab coat! Does that make me special too?) demonstrates the process. Basically it involves taking an Americium-241 tablet – presumably yanked from a smoke detector – and putting a welding torch to it. After the tablet has been sufficiently vaporized/melted it is shown to be far less radioactive. Actually, it worries me a little to see this dofus fooling around like this. While Am-241 is just about harmless when it’s embedded in the tablet material, it appears this guy has managed to vaporize or ablate the material it was situated in. He has a “fume hood” but you’ll notice that it ventilates right out the top. Personally, I don’t think this is the safest thing to do. But what do I know? I’m not wearing my labcoat!
This entry was posted on Monday, February 18th, 2008 at 3:52 pm and is filed under Bad Science, Not Even Wrong, Nuclear, Paranormal. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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February 18th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
The second video is very concerning. The amount of Am-241 in a smoke detector is small and probably of little concern in normal circumstances, but it is a relatively powerful alpha emitter and inhaling even a small amount could potentially be hazardous to lung tissue. The tablets in smoke detectors are designed to be chemically inert and pose very little risk in their original form.
A smoke detector can have up to 50 microcuries of Americium in it, which is enough to be of concern if the individual shown does this any number of times. Even once, however, this is highly ill advised.
I do not know what the compound is which the Am-241 is present in is off the top off hand, but it is usually in the form of a tiny metal or ceramic disc which is gold plated and then clamped into a a small mount. It is usually designed to have some degree of heat and flame resistance, but it seems that what is shown here is the material heating to the point where it releases most of the Am-241.
If you know who this gentleman is I highly suggest you contact him. While the Am-241 sources in smoke detectors are usually pretty safe he is defeating all the measures taken to assure this safety and is potentially endangering his health. This is not something anyone should attempt!
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February 18th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
That last one just about takes the cake.
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February 18th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
The Am-241 in most smoke detectors is in the form of AmO2. I do not have any data on the physical properties of that, however the AmO2 source is manufactured by mixing the AmO2 into a molten gold alloy. The actual amount is less than 1% of the alloy which results. This is then pressed into a foil which is bonded onto the backing material. This usually takes the form of a small metallic disc onto which the gold foil alloy with embedded Am-241 is bonded.
The temperature of a hydrogen flame can be above 2000 C. In such a torch as shown it could be even higher at the highest burning temperature of hydrogen in an oxygen torch can be up to 2400 C. Gold melts at less than 1400 degrees C. Clearly the flame from the torch was hot enough to completely melt the gold foil and possibly the material to which it was affixed. It would not be hot enough to boil gold, but it likely could have dispersed or ablated the material.
I do not know what the exact composition of the gold foil allow is. It may contain other metals (possibly zinc, copper or others as are common in gold alloys). I believe that the assessment is correct that the flame destroyed the gold, melting it completely and dispersing the foil and the Am-241 compound it contained.
This is not the safest activity in the world. Nor is it the most intelligent. That is putting it lightly.
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February 18th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Thank you for that information, Russ. I looked at a few sources and it appears that the dispersion of the Am-241 from a smoke detector tablet can occur at temperatures over 1200 to 1500 degrees C. This is beyond what one would expect the unit to be subject to in a moderate structure fire, but it can happen where there are high temperature flames or enclosed fires.
It is considered to be of minimal concern and there is normally no need for radiological precautions in most fire situations due to smoke detectors alone. However, normally there would not be a person breathing within just feet of the material as they intentionally subject it to such temperatures.
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February 18th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Former state assemblyman Dan Haley from New York describes what he witnessed. Date of lecture unknown, estimated mid 90’s. Assemblyman … all » Haley was Chairman of the Legislature’s Joint Commission on Energy and launched a campaign against nuclear power and for renewable energy,
See it here:Browns Gas additional properties
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February 18th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
There is no URL in the hyperlink. I think you forgot to put it in.
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February 18th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Let’s try again:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=411405755714495752#2m10s
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February 18th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
I don’t know how dangerous the one tablet of americium would be since he probably would have only inhaled a tiny bit if any. But if this is the kind of experimentation this idiot does regularly – playing with radioactivity, electric arcs, high temperature torches – and he has the know of understanding of such things he displays here it’s only a matter of time before things get very very ugly.
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February 18th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Natural selection at work Dave – natures way of vacuuming the detritus from the gene-pool.
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February 18th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
I would like to ask the “genius” behind this exactly what he claims this gas that is so easy to make does to nuclear waste or other radioactive material. You can’t make something less radioactive or accelerate the decay without changing the nuclear structure. So what is going on? Is it dislodging a particle or adding protons or causing fission?
I think the answer would be “Um. it makes the radioactivity go away”.
Neither of the videos show anyone who has the most basic idea what they are talking about.
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February 19th, 2008 at 12:12 am
I think you should actually prove this is wrong before you just assume you understand and these people do not. How do you know you are right and not them? maybe they are or maybe you are. don’t be closed minded to new ideas.
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February 19th, 2008 at 5:36 am
Low energy transmutation has been a haven for investment scams for decades.
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February 19th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Tim Worstall said:
Actually for centuries. After all, that’s what alchemists tried to do since Roman times. And many cash-strapped rulers lost significant amounts to those that claimed to be able to turn lead into gold. The involved elements changed. The scams didn’t.
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February 19th, 2008 at 9:57 am
But if I were a ruler during antiquity and I thought that there were some guy who had discovered a way to turn lead into gold I’d be pretty unhappy and not want it to ever be discovered. I’d be thinking “OH MY GOD IF THIS GETS OUT ALL MY GOLD WILL BE WORTH ONLY AS MUCH AS LEAD” (sorry for caps but I’d shout it too). Either that or I’d maybe hope I could keep it under wraps, which I’d never be able to do if it existed.
Maybe I’d just trade all my gold away for silver or something and then finance the lead->gold research and watch all the other world governments collapse as their coffers become worthless
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February 19th, 2008 at 10:08 am
They didn’t think that far. They couldn’t. Until the last 100 years or so most european drinking water was too unsafe to drink. It was too polluted by their major “green” power source: animals and their “waste products”. Therefore, without refrigeration, the only method to preserve liquids to drink was fermented fruit juices. Meaning beer, wine and cider. Which means most europeans were in a permanent “buzz” for >800 years. Which explains much of european history.
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February 19th, 2008 at 10:42 am
KLA is right about them not realizing what it would mean. Even when the European economy was staggering under double-digit inflation from the flood of Spanish gold from the New World they couldn’t work it out.
JessStar I don’t have to shoot myself in the head to prove it would be fatal. Understanding the underlying science allows us to predict with some accuracy what is happening in this case. Total radioactivity is not being reduced; it’s being allowed to escape in to the environment as it were. Probably into a form that can be inhaled by the guy doing it. This is not wise or safe.
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February 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
DV82XL said:
Wise, safe, and Brown’s gas do not belong into the same post. It’s basically an explosive gas mixture. Some parlour tricks can be done with it that fool the uninformed.
BTW, the earliest mentions of the “water” carburator that’s supressed by the oil companies go back to about 1923. It pops up ever since.
The saying “logic is an organised way to go wrong with confidence” is so often true. Like in this story from my field.
An internet poster on a car forum posted this:
He noticed that his gas gauge on his car indicated more when he went downhill. He (correctly) concluded that a car uses less gas when going down a hill. His solution to increase his mileage was to jack up the rear suspension so the car sits at an angle. He intended to “fool” the fuel injection computer to “think” the car’s on a downhill stretch and therefore uses less gas all the time.
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February 19th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I agree this is highly unwise. But there’s usually only about one or two microcuries in home smoke detectors (as many as 50 in industrial ones). If the guy did not huff too hard and if his garage is not too contaminated I don’t think the Am-241 will be a HUGE problem for him. But if this is the kind of experimentation he regularly does, then it’s bound to bite him. If he doens’t blast am-241 constantly, well mixing high voltage, hydrogen gas, welding torches, radioactivity and stupid is going to end up getting someone hurt pretty fast, eh?
KLA: Oxy-hydrogen is actually pretty common for certain use. It works well for certain kinds of welding applications with aluminum alloys. There are processes where they actually use an arc on the tip and have oxy-hydrogen which acts as both a flame and a basic shielding gas.
Except for the little deals in electronics where it’s generated insitu and burned right there, making “brown’s” gas as one gas and pumping it through a single hose is asking for trouble. You should never mix fuel and oxygen like that in a system of that type. It could flash back down the hose and to the supply and well it’s just dangerous as hell to be storing and pumping oxygen and hydrogen together like that! At least in any significant volume.
I wonder if this guy is still alive or has blown himself right into the Darwin Awards yet?
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February 20th, 2008 at 8:57 am
The first guy must be a politician, and I knew that before even reading who it is. He can talk about things he does not understand the first thing about with the authority of an expert and the confidence of a superhero. What an idiot. He should read a book some time, but not a book with a title like “Natural Cures They Don’t Want You To Know About”
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February 20th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Why can’t hydroelectric-powered cars work?
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February 20th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Michael Ejercito said:
Because cars haven’t yet been fitted with my new patent Microdam in situ auto engine!
This new breakthrough technology promises to revolutionise the transpotation industry! naturally, I can’t give any details at the moment, but a demonstration model shall be made available as soon as I can get enough investors to provide the modest startup capital neccessary for the pilot project. If you wish to invest in this wonderfool opportunity, let me know, and i’ll give some contact details and the details of the bank account your investment can be paid into…
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February 20th, 2008 at 11:11 am
The pathetic thing is Finrod, there’s more truth than humor in your suggestion.
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February 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Michael Ejercito said:
They can. Any electrical source can power a car if its an electric car, although not directly. Hydroelectric is great where you have it. If we used about 90% less energy we might be able to get by with hydroelectric as the major energy source. Sorry, but that is not in the cards.
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February 20th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Finrod said:
Yeah, the only problem with the hydroelectric car (aside from all the water that comes out all over the road from the exhaust) is the damn overpasses! I mean, how the hell are you supposed to go anywhere when you have an 800 foot tower on your car with several hundred thousand gallons of pumped storage capacity at the top?
I mean, I could drive to work, as long as work is less than a couple miles away, if only they would raise those overpasses by a thousand feet or so.
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February 20th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Q said:
Oh come on, Q. That’s just plain childish. 800 foot water towers? This isn’t a cartoon, you know. That is so old school!
My patented microdam technology eliminates the need for huge water columns by using a simple onboard internal combustion engine to provide water column base pressure without all that heavy, cumbersome equipment. This simple expedient will provide a bridging technology to the eventual end-goal of a completely internal combustion-free hydroelectric car. As for water spraying all over the road, that won’t happen. The water is fully recycled through a closed-loop system, further proving the vehicle’s green credentials. No doubt, with technology advancing as it is, the ultimate compact, closed-loop IC-free hydroelectric car can only be a few years away, a decade at most.
So who’d like to invest? Get in on the ground floor!
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February 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Finrod said:
Well actually that sounds like a good deal. I’m in! Will it work driving over suspension bridges? I just sent a gentleman a check to purchase one in Brooklyn and I’d love to drive my car on my new acquisition. I should be getting the deed in the mail any day now.
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