Chris Brown said:

Now why would I go into a restaurant that didn’t have beer in Canada?

Clearly you are a man of good taste and clear thinking, there Bruce. Why indeed would anyone want to eat in a place without beer?

        Chris Brown said:

Last time I was in BC they had “licenced” “unlicenced” restaurants. I only ate at the licenced ones, but the unlicenced ones didn’t bother or impact me in any way – they were part of my decision making process. If somebody lied and said they had a licence and didn’t they should be penalized for taking advantage.

I await your flames.

Chris, I tend to agree with you, however “licensed” “unlicensed” restaurants in Canada refers to the right to sell alcoholic beverages. It has nothing to do with compliance to health regulations.

Regulations are needed because 20% of the folks will try and cheat. With enforcement you can drop this down to under 5%. Regulations can be a pain to comply with, however they are in place to PROTECT legitimate operators from the scammers. Because the scammers are so sneaky regs sometimes need to impose fairly strick conditions on the legitamate operators to catch the bad guys.

As a regulator I have to remind even my own staff that when you bust somebody you should not feel sorry for him – you should feel sorry for all the legimate operators who followed the rules and the scammer took advantage of.

I have 160 gas stations in my territory. 159 of them follow the rules. 1 of them does not. It is NOT FAIR to 159 operators that this one bastard cheats.

Regulations are (or should not) be in place to stop people from doing things we don’t like – they are only in place to prevent people from being impacted by somebody who isn’t truthful. Last time I was in BC they had “licenced” “unlicenced” restrurants. I only ate at the licenced ones, but the unlicenced ones didn’t bother or impact me in any way – they were part of my decision making process. If somebody lied and said they had a licence and didn’t they should be penalized for taking advantage.

I await your flames.

Naturally they were not happy about this.

        DV82XL said:

but it is strange that they were not complaining when they could sell livestock to abattoirs in the U.S. prior to the ban

What do you mean by this? I don’t quite get you.

Everything else you said does make a lot of sense.

        Metatron said:

I may have been a bit vague in my explanation, It’s a BC Provincial law that prohibited farmers and ranchers from slaughtering their own meat and selling directly to the public. Now, several years after the passage of the law, the nearest legal slaughterhouse for the local farmers and ranchers is still +- 200km away, and they are really hurting. The locals tried to set up a local slaughterhouse, but it was too expensive. Now you see cattle trucks, with cows packed in like Sardines, driving by all the time. If there ever was totally unnecessary cruelty, that’s it.

Well I did a bit of research into this and it would seem that these laws (because BC is not alone) were a result of the BSE scare and efforts to get export markets reopened for Canadian beef. Apparently when the shipment of live animals was halted, an effort was made to reopen export markets to the sale of butchered products, and to this end Canada had to align its regulations with those of other FTA countries.

I have also read the stories that you mention about strapped farmers having to ship their animals to licensed slaughterhouses, and the hardship that initials, but it is strange that they were not complaining when they could sell livestock to abattoirs in the U.S. prior to the ban, so I have to wonder just how much of that is posturing for other ends.

Now I am no big fan of layers of useless regulation, but here is a case where as a country we just don’t have a choice. It’s too bad people like you cannot buy meat they way you like it, but we a huge industry to consider, that depends on external markets that set the rules.

        Metatron said:

As I said, some people find no difference between store bought and fresh, some do. I fall into the latter category. Maybe it is psychological, but I don’t think so and it should still be my choice even if it is.

Some double blind testing should be able to fix that.

        DV82XL said:

I grew up on a farm and I hunt, and by now I have probably slaughtered more animals and prepared more fresh meat that most people, and frankly, its not that much different than the store-bought cuts, so I think most of the fresh meat experience is physiological, notwithstanding the fact that most meat needs aging before it has any flavor at all.

As I said, some people find no difference between store bought and fresh, some do. I fall into the latter category. Maybe it is psychological, but I don’t think so and it should still be my choice even if it is.

I may have been a bit vague in my explanation, It’s a BC Provincial law that prohibited farmers and ranchers from slaughtering their own meat and selling directly to the public. Now, several years after the passage of the law, the nearest legal slaughterhouse for the local farmers and ranchers is still +- 200km away, and they are really hurting. The locals tried to set up a local slaughterhouse, but it was too expensive. Now you see cattle trucks, with cows packed in like Sardines, driving by all the time. If there ever was totally unnecessary cruelty, that’s it.

Now imagine that being extended to the entire food system in the US (and Canada soon after that most likely).

        Metatron said:

If the government simply sent inspectors over to farms that slaughter meat free of charge and checked up on them periodically, I would be AOK with that. However the current procedure for meat in Canada(and what that law proposes to do for everything in the US) is that in order to even be inspected, you have to pay for permits, have very specific(and expensive) equipment and deal with enough complex government paperwork that is complex beyond the abilities of anyone without a law degree. That means that only large, centralized companies can realistically comply. It should be my choice as an adult to take the “risk” of eating “potentially” unsafe meat(or in the US case pretty much all food products).

This actually ties into the skiing example quite nicely. When I ski, I consciously evaluate the Risk/Pleasure ratio and decide that the pleasure is worth the risk. In the same fashion, I should be able to purchase (really) fresh meat(or in fact whatever food I like) that is from a “risky” source, if I feel that the pleasure I get from it(and let me tell you, the difference in pleasure from truly fresh meat, compared to the store bought variety, has to be tasted to be believed) is worth the Risk, it’s my risk to take. Anyone who doesn’t want the Risk(or doesn’t find the taste difference to their liking, there are some people like that), can go to Superstore and buy a nice, safe(or as recent experience tells us, not really) and inspected piece of meat(or poultry or whatever).

This proposed legislation would take that choice away from every single American, and even though I don’t live there, I’m still concerned about it(due to the huge impact that events in America have in Canada)

I grew up on a farm and I hunt, and by now I have probably slaughtered more animals and prepared more fresh meat that most people, and frankly, its not that much different than the store-bought cuts, so I think most of the fresh meat experience is physiological, notwithstanding the fact that most meat needs aging before it has any flavor at all.

Secondly let us not forget that Maple Leaf foods had issues with cold cuts, not raw meat, so comparisons here aren’t valid.

Lastly you are free to do what you want in that regard here in Canada, I know of no legislation that prevents the private sale of foodstuffs, what is really being restricted is the reselling of meat which which as been slaughtered at unlicensed abattoirs, which is something a bit different, and is definitely an area where consumer protection laws need to apply.