You can assert this rubbish as much as you want, particularly the nonsense about ’succussion’ ( I note you never answered question I posed in comment 49) and no legitimate scientist will believe you, because no physical mechanism for this so-called effect exists. Again like the frauds that claim proof of Intelligent Design, the only ones you fool are the ignorant.

I am tired of this exchange now, there is no room for debate between us on this subject. You are ether deluded or a fraud, ether way this is getting stale.

These statements are utterly disingenuous. You conveniently ignore several important things:
- I have talked about core of debate. I did not indulge in irrelevant ridicule which is stupid.

i) the vast majority of studies show homeopathy has zero effect above placebo.
- Addressed. Those studies in which homeopathic methodology is not employed will not give result for sure. There are numerous studies which confirms efficacy of homeopathy.

ii) the method of producing homeopathic medicines involves repeat dilution to the point where not a single molecule of the original substance remains – there is no way that the medicine can do anything. It is pure water.
- It is not only water. Research is on study how and what changes this dilution and dynamization brings on. Scientific minds thinks – How, Unscientific mind says – Impossible.

iii) it is based on the “principle of similars” – ie if you give someone a substance that would cause their symptoms, they will get better. So, can’t sleep – try some watered down caffeine. This is in complete contradiction ! to everything we know about how the body works.
- How sad, you dont know how body works. Principle of similars in not unknown to conventional medicine. Have you not heard about rebound congestion after use of nasal decongestants or rebound acidity after antacid use.

iv) the more you dilute the substance, the stronger it becomes. Once again, this makes no sense whatsoever.
- It is not mere dilution, it is succussion. So it indeed becomes stronger. Someone wrote that ok lets dilute a medicine into sea to make it most strongest. Well you can if you have guts to success the entire sea. Higher dilution indeed gives stronger medicines thats why LM potency is strongest in homeopathy.

v) the set of diseases that homeopathy can allegedly cure *exactly* matches the set of diseases the body can cure itself of – colds, sore throats etc.
- First of all do not dare to take common cold n sore throat lightly. It gives lots of morbidity and is cause of huge financial and work hour loss in addition to suffering along with complications of repeated attacks. Yes homeopathy helps in these. I have talked about DRUG RESISTANT TUBERCULOSIS my dear where the entire protocol of conventional medicine fail and the patient is left to die. Homeopathy has cured cases like this. Homeopathy has treated cases like status asthmaticus, status epilepticus, drug resistant tuberculosis, kidney failure, tumors, bleeding eczema, psoriasis, ulcers, infertility, sterility, hepatitis b, cardiac arrhythmias, warts, hypertension and numerous others. And that too with almost one hundredth of expenditure as compared to conventional medicine.

There is no known mechanism that homeopathy can work by, and no evidence – other than anecdotal – that it does. If that anecdotal evidence was correct, you’d see it replicated in studies – which, as I’ve said, you don’t.
- Incorrect again. Good number of research studies are going on and succesfully proving working and mechanism of homeopathy again and again.
http://ccrhindia.org

I have spent a great deal of time in India, mostly in Bombay and New Delhi, and given the conditions most of the street people spend their miserable lives in, just putting them in a clean place, with freah water, and decent meals, would in and of itself, help them get over some sicknesses.
- I have read earlier too you have written silly words about India. I can write 100 things about your country and you will find no place to hide. But that is below dignity to write anything about any country. Now the facts. You were probably hiding in some five star hotel, so you have not explored India the great country that it is. Sad for you. Those on streets of India have better immunity than those in mansions of any so called developed country. And medical facilities in India are better than those of so called developed countries. And they are reachable anytime and affordable even without insurance.

Just for the record: that a government supports something is no proof of its efficacy. Established churches have been part of the Western political landscape for centuries – it doesn’t make what is preached in them true.
- I have no business to comment on churches. But yes when government in todays time support anything, it is a thought after decision for peoples welfare. Indian govt has till date not recognized acupunture but it has recognized homeopathy along with conventional medicine, ayurved yoga siddha and naturopathy. These are established therapeutic systems. There are govt run homeopathic medical colleges and hospitals giving free treatment to millions of people. Thats what welfare is.

Thats what I told. Evidence for homeopathy is right there in govt run hospitals and govt run research centres. One must have ’scientific’ mind to see.

i) the vast majority of studies show homeopathy has zero effect above placebo.

ii) the method of producing homeopathic medicines involves repeat dilution to the point where not a single molecule of the original substance remains – there is no way that the medicine can do anything. It is pure water.

iii) it is based on the “principle of similars” – ie if you give someone a substance that would cause their symptoms, they will get better. So, can’t sleep – try some watered down caffeine. This is in complete contradiction ! to everything we know about how the body works.

iv) the more you dilute the substance, the stronger it becomes. Once again, this makes no sense whatsoever.

v) the set of diseases that homeopathy can allegedly cure *exactly* matches the set of diseases the body can cure itself of – colds, sore throats etc.

There is no known mechanism that homeopathy can work by, and no evidence – other than anecdotal – that it does. If that anecdotal evidence was correct, you’d see it replicated in studies – which, as I’ve said, you don’t.

I have spent a great deal of time in India, mostly in Bombay and New Delhi, and given the conditions most of the street people spend their miserable lives in, just putting them in a clean place, with freah water, and decent meals, would in and of itself, help them get over some sicknesses.

Just for the record: that a government supports something is no proof of its efficacy. Established churches have been part of the Western political landscape for centuries – it doesn’t make what is preached in them true.

        vikram bhatt said:

those were different studies. anyways when u say u dont bel in god, that explains your hard heartedness and lack of feeling of others pain. it is now even scientific study that those who bel in god are more compassionate. begin to bel in god, you will discover a new yourself and will be able to feel pain what people are suffering. this is not sarcasm but sincere appeal to you.

First, whether or not they were different studies (which they did not appear to be) I do not like to have dozens of posts with one link in a row when they could be put in one comment. Yes, if there are multiple links it may require approval, but that never takes long.

Look, I do not believe in god and this is not a choice as I see it, because choosing what one believes in based on what you want to be the case is called delusion. I don’t believe in god because the evidence speaks clearly to me and I see no logical reason to presume a higher power.

Do not go around telling me that I have no compassion. I’m not going to go into my own background, but there is nothing that I would like more than to see higher standards of living around the world, especially in areas prone to disease, poverty, hunger. Above all else, I’d like to see the minimum of good fresh water, food and basic medical care become more universal. I dislike disease and pain, to the point that I’m angry by any efforts to oppose solutions to these issues. I vigorously promote things like vaccination and improved agriculture.

Imagine how many compounds must be present, in quantities of a molecule or more, in every dose of a homeopathic drug. Even under the most scrupulously clean conditions, airborne dust in the manufacturing facility must carry thousands of different molecules of biological origin derived from local sources (bacteria, viruses, fungi, respiratory droplets, sloughed skin cells, insect feces) as well as distant ones (pollens, soil particles, products of combustion), along with mineral particles of terrestrial and even extraterrestrial origin (meteor dust). Similarly, the “inert” diluents used in the process must have their own library of microcontaminants.

The dilution/potentiation process in homeopathy involves a stepwise dilution carried to fantastic extremes, with “succussion” between each dilution. Succussion involves shaking or rapping the container a certain way. During the step-by-step dilution process, how is the emerging drug preparation supposed to know which of the countless substances in the container is the One that means business? How is it that thousands (millions?) of chemical compounds know that they are required to lay low, to just stand around while the Potent One is anointed to the status of Healer?

That this scenario could lead to distinct products uniquely suited to treat particular illnesses is beyond implausible.

As for feeling the pain of others please understand I have nothing but empathy for the poor, ingnorant and sick, with is why I want to protect them from parasites like you, that would take advantage of them in their hour of need.

        vikram bhatt said:

I have not posted anything unrelated. I gave you pubmed evidence

Which was posted about six times in a row. I removed that flood of comments that was the exact same thing.

GOD I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DO THAT

It’s not like you can just scream the same thing over and over out of frustration that nobody is buying it and think that it somehow is going to help. It’s just a flame attack that makes it difficult to discuss anything here by flooding the comments.