Chuck P. said:

You’ve never been in Hawaii on New Year’s have you?

I’ve never been to Hawaii period.

        drbuzz0 said:

Uh oh!

Anecdotal evidence alert!

That being said, I don’t doubt that there may very well be something to that, but I also tend to think it’s more likely to be barbecue grills and bon fires and that kind of thing than it would be fireworks.

You’ve never been in Hawaii on New Year’s have you?
It get’s pretty smokey and I have no trouble believing someone’s asthma getting agrivated. The nice thing about Hawaii is that the trade winds clear it all out by the next morning.

        Calli Arcale said:

It’s not completely bull. My asthma gets markedly worse every July 4 because of the stuff in the air from fireworks, firepits, and outdoor barbecues. Mainly just fine particulates; it doesn’t really matter *what* it is so much as that there’s a whole bunch of it in the air. Fortunately, a good rainshower or a few days wait clears it out. I’m pretty much fine again now.

Uh oh! Anecdotal evidence alert!

That being said, I don’t doubt that there may very well be something to that, but I also tend to think it’s more likely to be barbecue grills and bon fires and that kind of thing than it would be fireworks.

Also, that crap about “toxic” and “harmful” chemicals from fireworks is bull**** as well. Barium is found in fireworks, but it is after all, found in the enviornment and plenty of places have barium compounds in their soil to begin with.

It’s not completely bull. My asthma gets markedly worse every July 4 because of the stuff in the air from fireworks, firepits, and outdoor barbecues. Mainly just fine particulates; it doesn’t really matter *what* it is so much as that there’s a whole bunch of it in the air. Fortunately, a good rainshower or a few days wait clears it out. I’m pretty much fine again now.

The “toxic chemical” that’s become a big boogeyman right now isn’t barium but rather various perchlorates. This is what they’re talking about when they breathlessly claim that “there’s rocket fuel in baby formula!” They’re used in lots of other things, though, because if handled properly, you can store them for a very long time. Solid rocket motors, car airbag devices, fireworks, oxygen candles, emergency flares, other pyrotechnics, and so forth. They do have pharmacological properties; medicinal perchlorates are used to treat hyperthyroidism (e.g. Grave’s Disease), so it can be expected that if you have too much in the environment, it would start causing problems. In particular, a healthy person getting too much perchlorate should have trouble getting iodine into their thyroid, potentially leading to goiter.

Perchlorates do occur in nature (with probably the most “definitely not human-related” example being on the planet Mars), and although recent studies have shown unexpectedly high levels in cow’s milk in certain areas, it is not at all clear how much of this has anything to do with fireworks or other human-related contamination. (Exception: there are a few sites where there has definitely been improper disposal leading to industrial contamination.) Nor is it clear that this would have an adverse affect on any humans. All in all, as with many low-level contaminants, the problem has been hyped out way out of proportion to the science. Personally, I don’t feel there’s any reason to worry.

That said, some companies have devised perchlorate-free fireworks. Although they *could* capitalize on the fear of perchlorates, they actually did it for a different reason — creating impressive pyrotechnics which produce very little smoke and which can therefore be used indoors. The indoor entertainment industry has pretty much consumed their entire production capability, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t start producing some for the consumer market, capitalizing on the scaremongering.

        Q said:

Do you make everyone feel bad about the “carbon footprint” of the fireworks – on either the 1st or the 4th?

It seems that kind of mentality is found to one degree or another in just about all industrial countries these days.

        Q said:

Do you make everyone feel bad about the “carbon footprint” of the fireworks – on either the 1st or the 4th?

Most of us don’t. But there are idiots everywhere.

        Brad F said:

In 1984 the US Coast Guard tall ship “Eagle” spent July 4th away from home, in port at my hometown in Canada. Fortunately as it turns out, our July 1st Canada Day fireworks had been rained out and the weather was much better on the 4th so we had a good excuse for another party. I think the crew appreciated it and a good time was had by all.

So yes, we do have July 4th in Canada. And sometimes we even celebrate it.

Do you make everyone feel bad about the “carbon footprint” of the fireworks – on either the 1st or the 4th?

So yes, we do have July 4th in Canada. And sometimes we even celebrate it.

Well. I’ve seen a greenie-weenie decry Adam Savage of the Mythbusters for using a few cans of matt black auto primer while making a replica maltese falcon. He almost had an aneurism when I dared suggest that the most likely propellant is dimethyl ether and the most likely solvent is acetone, both rather benign substances, and that likely he did more harm to the environment spending a few hours on his computer.

In response to Chem Geek’s comment:

Where the hell is this going to end? Going to see a fireworks display for the 4th or for any other occasion is an example of good clean fun, especially for families. It’s something that everyone can enjoy regardless of income and having a fireworks display is a great way for communities to celebrate events and bring people together. It’s sickening that this, for all it’s negligible cost in Co2 or whatever is being picked on. Nobody should have to apologize for something as innocent as taking their family to see a fireworks show! This is sickening to me. What percent of human emissions do fireworks account for? .000001%? Or do I have to add more zeros?

Is there any parade that these bastards won’t pee on?

What’s next? Model rockets? The Olympic torch? Those cracker things that they have at Christmas? How about breathing? Yeah, lets all make everyone feel guilty for breathing!